G21: Mark, it seems to us that the idea of building Web sites with the customer, or user, in mind is getting lost on the Web. Everybody is looking for "bells and whistles," and ignoring what happens to a real person, with a dial-up modem, coming here. What's your take on this?

MARK HURST: ... Flashy is always more sexy and more fun. But is it, objectively, more successful. Yeah, I would agree with you that maybe the flashier Web designs are being used more.

But look at the leading sites. Look at Yahoo! which didn't have first-mover advantage by that long. And Amazon, which did not have first-mover advantage. Why did they all win? Why is it that Yahoo! won the portal race? Why did Amazon.com win the e-commerce race? And why did AOL [America Online] win in the online services? All of them are simple and easy for the customers to use!

Granted, that's only a sample size of three, BUT they are very good examples of simplicity [in Web design] winning.

If you go to any interview of Jeff Bezos, he says, "We are obsessed with the customer experience."

...Those are top sites that are three good examples of the benefits of simplicity.

But if you need other examples, look at some of Creative Good's clients. And look at some of the conversion rates.

To give you just one example, we have a client who went from 40% to 140% conversion rate among their customers --- that means $65 million in increased sales based on simplifying the customer experience.

Now, of course, they probably didn't win that many design awards that year.

G21: [LAUGHTER.]

MARK HURST: But I think with $65 million dollars [USD] they can afford to buy a nice plaque for themselves. So, based on these examples, I feel sorry for anyone out there who thinks that flashy is the primary definition of a good Web site.

G21: Okay, here's another issue that affects the development of the Web right now - pages loaded with advertising. Usually banner advertising at the top of the page. I know of one example, Ipix.com runs a streaming video ad for IBM that is a browser-killer. I get e-mail from users about his one all the time.

MARK HURST: Actually I've seen that ad. It's one of those that do the 360 pan. I've been there, yeah.

G21: It's a killer!

MARK HURST: The brand online is the customer experience. So you go to the Ipix site and you get the message: "IBM - PLEASE WAIT." You talk about impressions? So you get twenty impressions on "IBM - PLEASE WAIT."

MARK HURST: But I don't have a value judgment on that, whether I like it or not. I say let the market show us all what's effective and not.

G21: Do you see this going away anytime soon? Not this particular ad, but this trend of let's throw as much advertising as we can at you on a single Web page?

MARK HURST: Everyone is trying to guess about the future of online advertising. Some people are saying it doesn't work because click-throughs are falling... Other people are looking at sales and saying, well there must be something to online advertising.

On the other hand, where are all the millions of dollars in dotcom ad-budgets going this season? OFF-LINE.

It's amazing, isn't it? So, I ... I don't know what the future holds for on-line ads.

I will say, in terms of customer experience, that lots of online advertising does not work. For example, if you go to a site selling hardware and you click on an ad for the new Epson printer, "$99 off on Epson Printer," let's say, and you get sent to the Epson homepage that has nothing to do with the printer you wanted, you probably aren't going to buy.

G21: I recently got a cc of an e-mail to an online retailer about just that type of experience. They went to the link for a deal on some hardware and never found what they wanted to buy!

MARK HURST: And imagine how many people other than the one person who decided to send you a copy of the e-mail also wrote this company because they couldn't find and buy what they wanted to! How much money is being lost by online retailer ignoring the customer experience?

Customer experience is the key driver of success online. What we try to do at CreativeGood.com is say this is the elephant in the living room for online companies and the need to stop ignoring it. We are going to keep saying it and saying it until more online businesses get the message.