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G21 WORLD HQ - We first became of aware Jennifer Loewenstein's involvement in working on issues of Israeli/Palestinian relations by way of an impassioned article she wrote for CounterPunch.org. Despite receiving hundreds of letters in response to the article (some of which were subsequently published at the same Web magazine,) she gratiously agreed to being interviewed by your World's Magazine. The transcript of our discussion follows.

G21: Let's begin with a bit of background. What got you interested in the Israeli/Palestinian question and prompted some of the perspectives one finds in your published work?

LOEWENSTEIN: It's difficult to find one or two things that sparked my interest. I think many things led to my wanting to learn more about the I/P situation. I grew up in a Jewish household in a suburb of Detroit and lived in Israel as a small child. I have many relatives there. I wanted to know more about them when I was older (and back living in the US). I remember my mother sending a box of clothing to my cousins just before the 1967 War because there were blockades on Israel. I wanted to understand why. Back then, I believed what my pare nts and friends all said -- that Israel was the victim of aggression and hatred. I wanted to stand up for Israel.

At the same time, however, my parents were passionate supporters of the US Civil Rights movement, which was going on in the 60s when I was a child. They were also outspoken opponents of the Vietnam War. We had many friends who participated in demonstrations and got arrested for their anti-war activities. These things made a deep impression on me and from a very early age I was preoccupied with social and political justice issues. Of course, my understanding of things back then was simplistic, but I think this was the beginning of desire to be an activist for human rights.

When I was a junior in college at Kalamazoo College in Kalamazoo, Michigan, I chose to spend my year abroad in Jerusalem, Israel. I was a young Zionist -- or that's how I thought of myself -- and wanted to celebrate my roots and my identity by going to Israel again and studying Jewish and Israeli history. The problem was that this time I was old enough to see that there were serious problems in Israeli society. I watched as Jewish American friends made jokes about Arabs and imitated Arabic in a vulgar way. I saw a society around me where there were the "right" people -- European Jews, the "OK" people -- Jews from other parts of the world, and the "wrong" people -- the Palestinians. They were treated like dogs. Israelis and Americans alike behaved as if these people were invisible, or worse, as if they were the enemy not to be trusted or spoken to. It was so obvious and so clear that I am still amazed that others who visit Israel (now and who visited in the past) are not equally appalled, especially as the situation is so much worse now than 24 years ago.

I began to question what I had been taught, and slowly, my views began to change. I did not become anti-Zionist over night; it took many years for me to come to the conclusion that Jewish nationalism (Zionism) -- in the forms it had taken -- is wrong and that I wanted to work to oppose it.

G21: Did you discuss your observations about the classification of people with your friends in Israel during that visit? How did they respond?

LOEWENSTEIN: No, I kept most of my thoughts to myself. On the other hand, my roommate Beatriz and I used to take long walks and talk about our thoughts. She was one of only two non-Jews on the program and, interestingly (or so it seems to me now), seemed to see things more clearly. I remember once walking with her in downtown West Jerusalem one evening. She said she didn't think Israel would last more than a hundred years or so -- there was "something wrong" with it; too "artificial" or something. I knew what she meant. It was a private thought we'd both had -- that a state built on the destruction of another people -- in an anti-colonial time -- would not survive. I still think this.

G21: What type of reactions have you received to your work (and thesis on these issues) over the years?

LOEWENSTEIN: As expected, I have gotten hysterical and angry reactions from the mainstream, established Jewish community in the US. I am virtually excommunicated from the Jewish community in Madison, Wisconsin, for example -- the city I live in.

In 2003 I founded a twinning project between Madison and Rafah (in the Gaza Strip) and this caused a firestorm in the city council here when our group sought official recognition by the city government. (Realize that Madison has 11 sister cities in places all over the world -- El Salvador, Cuba, Vietnam, East Timor, Italy, Nicaragua -- and that all have received official status in Madison.) Our project was defeated after an organized and carefully orchestrated opposition movement from within the Madison Jewish Community Council forced the hand of the Mayor to defeat us (the MJCC has members who fund and advise the Mayor and indeed will have a key member running his re-election campaign). We were defeated on the grounds that we were too "political" and "divisive"

The fallout from this whole campaign made the MJCC look very bad -- after all they spent months not only demonizing me publicly but demonizing our group, and the people of Rafah and Palestine. In an effort to save face, they began a "dialogue" group following the whole controversy to show how open-minded and liberal they were. The catch? I was not invited. I was "too much" for people to take.

This is just one example of the kind of reaction my work has gotten. I have received death threats, angry letters, derogatory letters, email viruses. I have been accused of desiring "the destruction of Israel" and of "supporting suicide bombings".

These are all lies, but no one in the Jewish community has yet sought to speak to me directly for clarification.

Again, this shows the kind of hysteria associated with criticism of Israel. (I have been accused of being a self-hater and an anti-Semite as well, of course.) It's easier to try to demonize and marginalize someone you don't like than to invite her to have open dialogue with people who disagree. This is because they really have no interest in allowing my views an open forum. It might mean that Israel's status as "special partner" with the US would be diminished; that real peace for Palestinians might be desirable rather than the pitiful charade we see on television about how steps like "Disengagement" are going to lead to better days ahead. In fact, I believe the days ahead are, in many ways, going to be worse than what we have seen up to now.

On the other hand, on the question of how people have reacted to me I want to say that there are many peace activist Jews in the US and Israel who have been deeply supportive of my work and my writings. I am very grateful to them. There are also many Arab and Muslim activists who have been supportive and very helpful to me. I am indebted to all of these people not only for their support but also for the tireless energy and effort they put into this badly needed work.

G21: How do you rationalize being so far out of the "mainstream" on these issues. And secondly, why do you think you are?

LOEWENSTEIN: I don't think I'm "radical" at all. I think I'm very moderate: I advocate non-violence and a single bi-national state in Israel/Palestine. I believe in universal human rights and equal citizenship under the law. The real question here is why the "mainstream" views me as marginal and dangerous -- or at least this is how the powers that be view me. This is something we need to examine closely. What does it say about our real "values" and long term goals? If my views are as threatening as they apparently are, our society is in much worse shape than I thought. But I think most people would not view me as threatening if they could see me through something other than the lens of those who control our thinking and our behavior here at home.

G21: Considering the situation on the ground today, the position of the United States and the atmosphere provoked by the US "War on Terror," do you think there is any practical chance for a just solution in the area?

LOEWENSTEIN: I don't think it is productive or helpful to give up hope, but I admit to feeling pessimistic much of the time. I try to remember some advice that Noam Chomsky once gave me, namely that to give up is to allow the other side to win. We can't in good conscience do this. We would be betraying too many of the world's people.

Beyond that, I think there is hope for change here in the US -- and that will lead to change in the Middle East. It is slow in coming and can be discouraging much of the time, but eventually people are going to wake up to what our government is doing in their name.

100,000 dead Iraqis so that we can control Iraqi oil? So that we can establish military bases throughout the Middle East and Southeast and Southwest Asia? Nearly 2000 American dead so that our corporations can extort money and resources fr om the people of the region? So that a few wealthy businessmen and women in the United States can continue to gain huge profits at the expense of the American people?

Where is universal health care? Where is universal daycare? Why is there so much unemployment? Why are there tens of thousands of hungry people in my (relatively wealthy) state of Wisconsin alone? Why are men and women in their 40s and 50s having to work for minimum wage at fast food restaurants, for example, in order to sustain themselves?

The fact is, the battle for justice in the Middle East begins right here in the United States with the battle for public opinion and for a more just social order right here. Breaking through the monolithic corporate media is just one task that activists like myself have in front of us. Making people aware of just how much they are paying -- in terms of dollars and in terms of human lives -- to maintain a system of power that is literally murdering people and exploiting them worldwide should be the priority of everyone working for some semblance of justice today.

G21: What kinds of strategies are you using to break through the hold you believe the mainstream media conglomerates have on the public discourse -- particularly here in the United States, as you mention? And, to follow-on, how successful has each of these strategies been for you?

LOEWENSTEIN: I don't really think of myself as "strategizing". I speak when I am invited and I challenge myths or misinformation when I hear it (this is something I think more people should do rather than staying silent and 'polite').

In 2003, I founded the Madison-Rafah Sister City Project, a twinning project between the city of Madison, Wisconsin -- where I live -- and Rafah in the Gaza Strip. Our hope is to humanize the "other"; to educate people here on the Palestinian situation and on Palestinian culture and history; and to establish direct, people-to-people contacts between citizens of Madison and citizens of Rafah.

We have been modestly successful given the opposition we have faced. We have a family support project, a medical-aid committee, a public outreach committee, a steering committee and, most importantly, partners in Rafah who are willing and able to work with us.

As far as my "success" in other realms, I am always surprised by the welcome receptions I get almost everywhere I go. I can think of only two times where I had hostile audiences. Sadly, both of these times (once here in Madison and once in Chicago) the audiences were primarily Jewish.

Many Jews are resistant to the idea that Israel can be wrong in its policies. I get shouted down, called "anti-Semitic" or "self-hating" and am told I "support terror" -- that kind of thing. It's crazy.

Many people, both Jews and non-Jews, make the mistake of assuming that if you support Palestinian human rights you oppose human rights for Jews. I've never understood this. There is no contradiction in wanting justice for both peoples.

At the same time, I disagree with many who say "well, both sides are wrong; both have committed acts of unjustifiable violence on the other." Yes -- but there is no equivalence between occupier and occupied. Suicide bombings are morally and strategically indefensible, but they are also the outgrowth of an occupation that is illegal and abhorrent. Get rid of the occupation, the collective punishment, the daily human rights abuses, intimidation, dispossession and demonization -- and you will end 99% of the random, cruel violence committed against Israelis by Palestinians.

But to return to the issue of my talks, the overwhelming majority of people who speak to me after I give a lecture or talk on a panel are grateful and appreciative of what I've said. This is important. I find that people want to learn more, want to be told the truth, and are tired of the propaganda they get on this issue (among others) in the media.

G21: As you know, we found you through your recent article at CounterPunch.org. For the lazy among our readers, can you briefly restate your position about the recent media saturation on the Disengagement in Gaza, please?

LOEWENSTEIN: The "Disengagement" from Gaza is not a step toward peace. It was a unilateral act by the government of Israel intended to consolidate control over the West Bank, to further separate Palestinians in the Gaza Strip from Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and it was made to look like an enormous sacrifice that should more than justify Israel's continued theft of more and more Palestinian land and resources especially around Jerusalem but elsewhere as well.

Furthermore, the Gaza Strip is still occupied territory because Israel retains full control over the land, air and sea accesses to it. Israel also retains control over the exit and entrance of people and goods into Gaza as well as the supply of water and electricity. It has the right to determine which international aid organizations can enter, and it has the right to invade or attack Gaza at whim.

Poverty and unemployment will increase in the Strip as the result of "Disengagement" and its concomitant policies.

The focus on the "trauma" of illegal Jewish settlers having to be "uprooted" from their homes is grotesque given the tragic and wholly preventable history of the Palestinian people at the hands of the Zionist army in '47 and '48 and the Israeli State in '67 and beyond. Israel has never treated even its own "Israeli Arab" population with dignity or accorded them equal citizenship under the law. What it has done -- and is doing -- to the Palestinians living under occupation is well beyond shameful.

G21: What are the signs of hope you see for change here in the United States and for a more equitable situation in the Middle East?

LOEWENSTEIN: The single most promising sign of hope I've seen recently was the response I received from my CounterPunch article. In less than two weeks I received more than 400 emails, ninety percent of which were supportive and positive, and almost all of which decried the distortions and outright lies presented to us by the corporate media.

Many messages came from Arabs, Muslims and Jews but most came from the "average" Joes and Joannas -- people who, a decade ago, would not have been interested in this subject (assuming it wasn't their concern).

I've been an activist on this issue for 24 years -- and in the past few years the composition of activist groups on the subject of Israel/Palestine has noticeably changed: many Americans are beginning to understand that the US-backed occupation of Palestinian lands is at the heart of a failed and dangerous US foreign policy. When a majority of Americans sees this, there will be genuine and constructive change in the region. I just hope it doesn't come too late.

G21: What can we expect from Jennifer Loewenstein next? What are you plans for the near and distant future?

LOEWENSTEIN: Good question. I have many interests and hopes, and a daughter whose future means everything to me. If I can work for -- and even in some small way help bring about -- a more just world, I will have given her a valuable gift.

---

JENNIFER LOEWENSTEIN is a 44-year old wife, and mother who has been active in Israel/Palestine issues for the past 24 years. By the late 80's and early 90's she was very active in founding or co-founding dialogue groups between Arabs and Jews in the US and student groups devoted to the Israel/Palestine cause. She co-founded the Palestine Solidarity Committee branch in Madison, Wisconsin and later, a group called TIME (Truth in the Middle East). She also helped to organize the lectures of key speakers such as Edward Said, Iqbal Ahmad, Robert Fisk, As'ad AbuKhalil, Sara Roy, Felicia Langer, Ali Abunimah, Rashid Khalidi, Norm Finkelstein and Amira Hass.

This fall she will be a Visiting Fellow at the Refugee Studies Centre at Oxford University.