by Brad Balfour

G21 Contributing Editor

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NEW YORK, NY, USA - No one ever said Spike Lee made his films because of their commercial potential, but certainly he has one hard-hitting, controversial celluloid exercise with SHE HATE ME. Intertwining various plot elements this story starts with a young black biotech executive [Anthony Mackie] who is fired from his job for exposing corrupt business practices. He shifts into and an odd sexual romp when his ex-fiancé, Fatima , [Kerry Washington], now a lesbian, suggests he impregnate wealthy lesbians for profit. Within this framework, Lee throws barbs at corporate culture and sex role stereotypes while suggesting that families can be defined by more than gender.

Of course, Lee is an old hand at grappling with provocative subjects and the clichés that mainstream Americans love. In 1986 he made an indie comedy about sexual relationships, SHE'S GOTTA HAVE IT, that established him as an intelligent, and talented film maker. From SCHOOL DAZE to his landmark DO THE RIGHT THING to films LIKE MO' BETTER BLUES and JUNGLE FEVER, he tackled issues that affected him as a black man in America. As he has expanded his catalog, he's grappled with a wide range of subjects and issues but has remained focused on making films that make us think -- whether we like it or not.

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G21: YOU WERE CONSCIOUS OF THE TIMING OF THIS FILM'S RELEASE?

SPIKE LEE: We knew this film was going to come out before the election, but [screenwriter] Michael Genet and I thought of it almost a year and a half ago. It just seems that the stuff we thought about just happens to come out in the headlines right before the film's opening. You look at [what happened to] Ken Lay and Martha Stewart, and [then there's] President Bush trying to add the amendment to the Constitution -- which was shot down, thank God -- banning the same sex marriage. Michael and I, have ä I don't know if you want to call it a crystal ball ä intuition or whatever or just plain luck, maybe.

G21: WAS ELLEN BARKIN'S CHARACTER FASHIONED AFTER MARTHA STEWART?

SPIKE LEE: No. I've always liked Ellen's work. She lives down the block from me. She's always saying "Spike, put me in your films," so casting her had nothing to do with Martha Stewart.

G21: AND HER HAIR?

SPIKE LEE: You have to ask her that because I would not tell Ellen how to wear her hair [laughter]. She came to the set and did her thing and that was it. I was just happy that she was there. She might have modeled it after Martha Stewart, but that was not something I was aware of.

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G21: WHEN JACK'S SCANDAL KICKS OFF, PEOPLE RESPOND AND THE FIRST THING WE SEE IS THAT FAUX-COMMERCIAL FOR GEORGE W. BUSH. GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY WOULD HE DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

SPIKE LEE: The last election was evidence of that. When African-Americans in Florida are trying to vote and come into the polls and find their names, that they're listed felons or that when they would try to leave their neighborhoods and were deterred by police barricades or their -- the polls were closing early. I mean, the Willie Horton commercial is nothing compared to what they did in Florida --- Bush and his brother and Katherine Harris

G21: WOULD YOU MAKE MORE DOCUMENTARIES LIKE THE ONE MADE ABOUT THE ELECTION?

SPIKE LEE: You mean WE WAS ROBBED? Well, I've done two documentaries, FOUR LITTLE GIRLS and JIM BROWN: ALL AMERICAN and I'd like to do some more.

G21: YOU'VE USED YOUR FEATURES AND DOCUMENTARIES TO GET OUT YOUR IDEAS. IS IT EASIER TO DO AS A DOCUMENTARY OR AS A FEATURE?

SPIKE LEE: To be honest, I don't slip into a different mode or change hats when I go from documentaries to feature films. For me it's all about telling the narrative. Of course, there's a different way you have to go about it but it's still story telling. The techniques I use for documentary filmmaking helps my narrative filming and the things I use for narrative filming helps me tell a story when I do the documentary so it's plus/plus for me.

G21: DO YOU WORRY WHEN YOU MAKE A POLITICAL STATEMENT?

SPIKE LEE: No, my wife worries all the time. Talia is telling me, "Spike, just be quiet for once."

G21: WHEN YOU RESEARCHED THIS FILM WHAT INSIGHTS DID YOU GET?

SPIKE LEE: One fascinating research trip, was going to a sperm bank. The oldest sperm bank in New York State is in the Empire State Building. It was amazing, what they do. How this thing work; it's like custom-made baby. You fill out a form, what height, left- or right-handed, hair color, eye colorä And if you want your sperm donor to have a post-graduate degree, that'll be an extra 5,000 dollars. They take your form and put it in the computer and see what matching sperm donors they have frozen on ice [laughter]. It's crazy; a lot of soldiers, before they went to Iraq, got their sperm frozen. And the whole thing with surrogate mothers where you have couples who -- I'm not even talking about gays, like we deal with in this film -- just people who can't have kids and they get the egg from the egg bank and sperm from the sperm bank and then find a woman, the surrogate mother. So they take this egg from the bank, sperm from the bank and put it together in some other woman and there you go [laughter].

G21: DO YOU JUDGE PEOPLE WHO DO THAT?

SPIKE LEE: I'm not making any moral or ethical judgment; it's just fascinating to me. But I will make a moral judgment on cloning. That's probably the only thing President Bush and I agree on. I don't think we should play God. I just think there's something very spooky about cloning human beings. It just makes my skin crawl.

G21: THIS MOVIE EXAMINES CORPORATE SCANDALS, LIKE ENRON. DOYOU SEE THEM INTERTWINED WITH THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION?

SPIKE LEE: Ken Lay and George Bush are buddies. When Bush was campaigning for the 2000 election, he was flying around the country on the Enron plane. Let's be honest, George Bush has more CEOs in his administration than any other President in the history of the United States, so there's a definite connection between big business and this administration. They're in cahoots! How is it that as soon as Bush comes in, he starts deregulation like it's going out of style? His boys Clear Channel, he hooked them up right away! Before, there was a law about how many radio and TV stations you could own. I forgot the guy's name, but he and Bush are tight. He comes in, deregulation with the FCC, Clear Channel owns every radio station, almost, in America. 1200. So how's that going to be a problem -- let me see ä The Dixie Chicks are giving a concert and they say, "We're ashamed to be from the state of Texas, the same state as the president."

What does Clear Channel do? All their stations that play Dixie Chicks are no longer playing them. And protests are organized where you come down for the Dixie Chicks CD burning.

G21: THIS FILM IS ABOUT BECOMING MORE RESPONSIBLE, ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THE STUFF HAPPENING IN THE WORLD.

SPIKE LEE: Well, I think that people could look at this film and identify with the character of John Henry Armstrong. I say that because, everyone, no matter who you are, is going to be put into a position where your ethics, scruples, morals, might have to compromised to advance your career. And I think people basically know the difference between right and wrong and sometimes, myself included, you make the wrong decision and end up regretting that decision. But you have to learn from that. I think that if Martha Stewart would go back in time, she would just fess up, "Yes, I tried to save 50,000 dollars." They would just do a little slap of the wrist and not turnher her the symbol of what's wrong with corporate America.

In this case, Johnny Armstrong's trying to make amends for what he did and that's with trying to form a family with two of the 19 kids he fathered but also he tries to reconnect with one of the women, Fatima. People forget that they [they]'re engaged to be married. When he cut short his business trip one day early, trying to be Mister Good Guy, and bought those dozen roses on the way over, he had no idea what he was going to walk in on. There's that old saying, you know, "Call home first," and [laughter] he didn't call home.

G21: THERE'S THE RESPONSIBILITY AND WEIGHT OF PORTRAYING A LESBIAN PROPERLY AND HAVING THAT JUDGMENT FROM THEM.

SPIKE LEE: That's why we hired [lesbian author] Tristin Taormino to be a consultant on the film and she red flagged several things in the script and worked with several of the actresses too.

G21: A SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY UNDERLIES WHAT YOU WANT TO COMMUNICATE?

SPIKE LEE: Not in every film that I've done but there are many different things we try to do with our films; we've done 18 so far but that would be a theme, a thread, that runs through a lot of them. I have to give credit to Michael Genet, it was his idea to give some love to Frank Wills, one of the true American heroes that's been forgotten by time. Here's a man who changed not just American history, but world history. Because he caught those [Watergate] burglars, the President of The United States, Richard Nixon was forced to resign, but look what happened. After he did that, we thought he'd be a hero, but he was not. He was unable to find steady employment from that time until his death -- and he died at an early age of 52, a destitute and a broken man.

But if you look at the people in the film who we see in the first Watergate scene we show in the film: G. Gordon Liddy, Haldeman, Oliver North, all of these guys have gone on to make millions and millions of dollars and it's like Watergate never happened, their convictions never happened.

G21: JACK SEES HIMSELF A REPRESENTATIVE OF ALL BLACK MEN. IS IT THAT HE FEELS THAT HE IS ASKED TO BE A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE RACE ALL THE TIME?

SPIKE LEE: No, I don't think that at all. His connection to Frank Wills is that Frank Wills blew the whistle, that I blew the whistle and that unlike Frank Wills, I hope the people here will remember my name and what I did and [that I'll] not become an afterthought in history. And also more importantly, you killed him but you're not going to kill me because I've got a lot to live for. So that really has nothing to do with being a representation of African men.

G21: YOUR FILMS HAVE TRANSCENDED JUST BEING ABOUT RACE AND MOVED ON TO LARGER ISSUES.

SPIKE LEE: I don't know if I would use the words, "moved on." I think race is still [an issue]. There's expansion there but race is a part of this film, but it's in the background. We're not done with that, but you know, we can't keep making the same film again and again, or beating the same horse again and again. Also, I have much more interest than just dealing with race in my films.

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