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New York, NY, USA - Though the success of "Whale Rider" -- a powerful yet simple story of a young Maori woman coming of age in the face of male discrimination -- would seem unmatchable, director Niki Caro has succeeded again in crafting a simple yet compelling story of another woman fighting against discrimination. This time she chose Oscar-winning actress Charlize Theron to bring to life fictional miner Josey Aimes who resists intense degradation by the male miners while breaking the gender barrier working the Minnesota iron range. The 38 year-old Caro once again has crafted a story of triumph against the odds -- this time in a different country with such veteran actors as Woody Harrelson and Frances McDormand under her sure command.
G21: How did you find out about this story?
NC: After "Whale Rider" I went back to New Zealand, I had a baby and I wanted to wait before making a second movie. I got to read many scripts, and, out of all of them, this was the only one that I couldn't put down.
G21: How close was the script to the actual story of this fight against discrimination?
NC: The script was amazing and [had] amazing flashbacks between Josey's early life and forward to the court. I felt that [screenwriter] Michael Seitzman really enlivened a story that could have been either a Lifetime movie or a sort of predictable courtroom movie and made something quite real and unusual. But there are things about the script that I felt could have been stronger, and I didn't think we could tell a story about Josey and all men without looking at her critical relationship with men, with her father and with her son. And both strong scenes, the moment where Hank speaks to Josey and when Josey admits to her son the circumstances of his conception, came out of my development. I kept on working with the writer six to nine months to incorporate those things to the script.
G21: How much did you diverge from what really happened?
NC: The character of Josey Aimes is entirely fictional but the film talks about real events. What happened in the mines was as shocking as depicted in the film. There was a real court case that we used. The film speaks for women eventually. After speaking out, the women were eventually successful and changed the course of history.
G21: Did you speak to any of the women themselves?
NC: Of course. They were my consultants in making the film. I kept them very close and they were immensely valuable to every department in the film, mostly to the actresses. And some of the people who stand up in the court, in the end of the film -- they were the real women that fought the case.
G21: Did you choose Charlize Theron because she is capable of changing her look and character while still being attractive in a her own way?
NC: Yes, I think that she is an extremely unusual creature because she is a movie star in every sense, even in the historical sense. But she is also a genius character and a total comedian. She is very deeply connected to human life and human nature, so real and so funny and normal. There was nobody else that I felt could have done justice to Josey Aimes.
G21: And what was the process of getting this film made?
NC: "Whale Rider" and "Monster" were distributed by the same guy. I was stalking Charlize for the role and she was stalking me because she had seen the work I had done for "Whale Rider" and she wanted us to work together. The director, the actor and the project all came together in a dynamic way.
G21: What kind of budget did you have?
NC: I can't tell you, but it was many times the budget for "Whale Rider," for which the budget was way too tiny to create sophisticated things but we did it.
G21: What about the rest of the cast?
NC: Casting is everything, in terms of directing, casting is 90% of the work. If you get it right, you have got a good chance of making something wonderful. I had a cast that I didn't dare dream about. All of those actors liked the script, which was amazing. Also because of the success of "Whale Rider," which they were all very fond of, they recognized that I wasn't a lunatic, that I could be responsible for a story like this.
G21: There was one individual that initiated this suit?
NC: Yes there was -- Lois Jenson. But the character of Josey is not the same. As I said, she is a fictional character.
G21: Was her sexual life mentioned in the trial?
NC: Yes, all of the women have experienced that in the court, which I think was as abusive as what they dealt with in the mines. But there are really good men in the story like Josey's father. They're flawed men but they are good men and it is a very important distinction to make in the film. Men are not all evil. Some of them behave despicably, but most of them are genuinely good.
G21: I would like to hear the discussions you had with your husband over this -- did he give you interesting feedback?
NC: No, he is just incredibly supportive. He is a very strong man. What is interesting is that men do acknowledged the dark sides of male human nature and the destructive behavior that can come out of it. He doesn't feel that he is being attacked.
G21: What does your husband do?
NC: He's an architect. It's a good thing that he is not a filmmaker, because when two people have the same career it could be troublesome.
G21: Was it difficult shooting in the States for you and your family; it must have been an interesting challenge culturally and experientially.
NC: The most difficult thing was being away from my child. I had to decide with my husband how we were going to manage it as a family and he put his very successful career on hold for the duration so our baby could always have a parent fulltime and they came with me everywhere. So, it wasn't easy but it was a satisfying way to make the film. When you have a baby for the first time you learn a lot about the world, human nature and why things are the way they are. She allowed me to improve and enrich my filmmaking.
G21: There's a clichÈ that men who come from Australia have a macho air.
NC: Well, yes, we all like strong masculine men. Women in New Zealand were the first in the world to get the right to vote, and [New Zealand] has the highest number of women in positions in political offices. I come from a very politically progressive place. The men might be strong in New Zealand, but the women are probably stronger.
G21: Judging by your photo I was wondering why you haven't done more acting?
NC: I am useless in front of the camera! I actually hate it.
G21: When did you decide you were going to be a director?
NC: When I went to art school in New Zealand, I made some little videos and it was a place where all the things that I loved came together. I really like writing and music and performance and photography. And it was a place where all of those things collided in a very enjoyable way.
G21: You started making features later than some other filmmakers.
NC: Yes, I made a lot of short films, I did a lot of TV work in New Zealand, and I didn't make a feature film until I was 29.
G21: Do you think you made a great feature with "Whale Rider" because you waited until after college to make them?
NC: The later the better because the more experience and wisdom you can bring to your work, the better. It is a complex thing telling a story on film.
G21: Do you find it bizarre that you've became so successful in the States?
NC: It's funny because I put so much into the work but I never feel that it's all about me; so I feel really anonymous. When you say that I am very successful it's funny because I feel grateful to people, particularly working on such amazing material.
G21: In "Whale Rider" you dealt with your experience as a woman and New Zealander In "North Country" though you dealt with things far from and different than that film's basic circumstance, you still dealt with women issues -- are we going to see a lot more of that?
NC: No, not necessarily. I am more interested in human nature and all its complexities than the matters in those last two films.
G21: Though you chose two very different stories shot in different environments, were there problems associated to this?
NC: The films are very similar; in both films I was an outsider, so I had to go into both these communities with humility and respect and get the real people to collaborate with me. I never expected the collaboration and I got it both times. And that has been very rewarding because the films were made with the collaboration of real people and real communities [and are] about things that are real. These people gave many years of their life to change their situation.
G21: You picked two powerful stories -- you have some instincts.
NC: Yes, instinct is everything.
G21: Did you see similarities in how to tell the narrative in both films?
NC: Yes, of course. There are similarities all over in both films. They both have the same female character who fights for what she believes in, against overwhelming opposition. They're both about real places, real people and take place in troubled places. These people have a great heart, high potential and the ability to change. They both have astonishing actresses and great performances. Both films are really emotional.
G21: How do you avoid that sentimentality?
NC: I am from New Zealand; I can't stand sentimentality. I am not a "chick flick" girl, I am afraid.
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