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G21 INTERVIEWS: GREG WHITELEY - Media Editor Brad Balfour talks with the young Mormon documentarian about his homage to Arthur "Killer" Kane, famed bassist of the notorious New York Dolls and the documentary homage he filmed about the legendary band.
New York, NY, USA - Though GregWhiteley had been a film student, he didn't think that his first feature documentary would be anything remotely like this movie. When he got to know fellow Mormon Arthur Kane, he found out Kane had a remarkable life before joining the Church of Jesus Christ of The Latter Day Saints. Arthur "Killer" Kane had been the drugging and debauched bass player of the New York Dolls a seminal, early '70s trash rock band fashioned in the model of Rolling Stones but with an even grittier Manhattan street sensibility that was more provocative than the Anglo-rockers.
That the band also performed in near-drag led it to be a transitional link between dark acid rock, glam and the nanscent punk movement which was inspired by the Dolls in the first place. Well, more than 20 years after they formed, the band was revived with the three remaining members -- Kane, lead singer David Johansen and guitarist Syl Sylvain -- to do one memorable gig in England. A few days after he returned from the gig, Kane suddenly died of leukemia and this film became a tribute and document of his survival, r evival and the whole situation leading up to the gig.
G21: Did you want to make a rock movie?
GW: No. This is a movie about a guy who was a rock star but it's not a rock-u-mentary. I think, as a result, it avoids some of the clichés you find in "VH1 Behind the Music." Not that those are bad. I enjoy them. This is a story about a guy who really wanted something really bad for a long period of time and he miraculously got it. What inspired me was he was a friend of mine. He went to church with me.
G21: So you are a Mormon? Had you been a filmmaker before you knew Arthur?
GW: I was a graduate film student when I met Arthur.
G21: When you first met Arthur, was it a surprise to see how different he was from the typical Mormons?
GW: I think that's part of what the film addresses. We make this box and we write on it, "typical Mormon' and then we take this box and we write "typical rock star." I find the more you get to know someone the less they fit in that box. I probably do not fit the stereotype of a typical Mormon.
G21: Why did you make the story through Arthur's eyes?
GW: Well originally I thought that Arthur was such an interesting character. When I first met him I thought about writing a screenplay. Then he came to me after we got to know each other and he said that his band was reuniting. So that was a catalyst to me picking up a camera and following him. I think there is still a great movie out there to be made about the band but this is a film about one facet of the New York Dolls. This is a story about Arthur "Killer" Kane.
G21: When did you know he had died?
GW: Well we were in constant contact. I talked to him the day before he passed away. Our mutual friend drove him to the hospital. Now we are adamant that you don't reveal the ending to this film. People that go to screenings don't know that he died. Most of them aren't close followers of The New York Dolls. In the screenings you'll hear an audible gasp in the audience.
G21: Do you think that God kept Arthur around to resolve this?
GW: There are those of us who believe that's how it happened. It was like he had one thing left to do on his life-to-do-list and once it was checked off he was ready to go because it happened quickly and in a pretty strange way.
G21: How did you decide to make this film?
GW: Well over the years I got to know Arthur, he would drop names to me. To me I would go, does he really know Morrissey? And he'd say that he talked to Morrissey. The week before we left for New York he said that he had tickets to go see Morrissey. He asked me to go so I said sure. We go and we got there late. As we walked in, the song that Morrissey was playing was "Subway Train." After the show, we went backstage and the entire band fawned over Arthur. I couldn't believe it. I knew I didn't know who my friend really was and I had to find out and that's what this film is all about.
G21: How long did it take you to make this film?
GW: We began in May 2004. We finished principal photography in July and we finished a rough cut in September and submitted it to Sundance.
G21: How many hours did you shoot?
GW: About 120.
G21: How did you find time to do this?
GW: Well this is what I do for a living, I just started to do it. One project was just ending and I was finishing it right when we were starting this project. We were lucky. We carved out about four or five months where this was all we lived and breathed. We really got the nuance of this very short period of time in Arthur's life that became worth documenting. I guess I don't know how to make any other film.
G21: Were you working on anything before this?
GW: I had been working on a script. I was just starting to take meetings with it. I had directed a couple commercials. I was just doing normal first time directing stuff. Then this came along.
G21: What was the inspiration to do this?
GW: I don't know when it occurred to us that we had a movie that was going to play in theatres. Two nights before we left for London, I was on the Internet and I was thinking if I should go or not. But my wife said you should do this. So going to New York for the rehearsals and to London I was just thinking 'I don't know.'
Along the way doors opened for us and then we became these people that didn't take no for an answer. We knew we could get this shot or this interview if we kept after it. Ed Cunningham, who never produced anything in his life, hopped on and Seth Gordon came and the three of us made this movie. We showed a rough cut to a group of friends to expedite things. We didn't have a deadline from a studio, so we'd invite friends for a screening of our film on this date. Then we would work and try and prepare for the screenings. I remember the first time we did that, I showed it to them and I thought it was terrible. I thought I wasted 4 months of my life. But they were completely taken by it and I knew we had something.
G21: Was this your first time in New York?
GW: Yeah, coming with Arthur to rehearse for the first time. You're looking at a total virgin pre-Arthur. Then Arthur took me under his wings. I had taken a couple of trips to New York but they were always very fast. But coming to the city and taking the subway to Arthur's different haunts and digs I had never done.
G21: How long did you stay in New York for the movie?
GW: There were five jam-packed days where we covered three rehearsals. They only did three rehearsals and then we went to London.
G21: What made you decide to put yourself in the film?
GW: There was no strategy behind it. There was just some moments in the film that there was something funny and interesting that happens that moves the story along. I just happen to be in the shot. For the most part, I'm shooting a lot of that footage. When we did have a camera man, I happened to be with someone. There was no planned strategy to be in the film. I think the film has an intimate, home-movie quality to it and I just happen to be the one taking the home-movie.
G21: What made you do the chart?
GW: We were struggling. Our first cut of the film was this two hour movie about the New York dolls, with a small section about Arthur. We just found that our friends were bored with that. There were all these great stories and old photographs but it just wasn't our movie. My wife had a very astute observation. She said that when she was watching the film, the parts she resonates most with are when Arthur is talking. My wife said to go back and put everything you possibly can about Arthur. Just focus on that.
Then we had another version of the film that was just about Arthur and people said they liked the film but they wanted to know more about who the Dolls were. So it was a tricky balance of how can you tell enough about the New York Dolls so you understand why Arthur wanted them to be reunited so badly and then not tell too much so that it became a "VH1 Behind the Music."
It's that graphic that I think helps us do that in a short amount of time. Reevie Garafalo, who is a professor at UMASS, developed it. We took that chart, and [the editor] Seth Gordon's handwriting was similar to Reevie's and so we decided to use that for the graphics of the entire film.
G21: When you made your list of people to talk to, did you get everyone you wanted?
GW: Yeah and more. The one guy I felt like we really had to get was Morrissey just because he's the patron saint of the New York Dolls in general and Arthur in particular. I was just so curious what his timing was and why reunite them now. Not only that I was just so curious to why the Dolls are important to you. Because his music doesn't reflect what we associate with the aesthetic of th e Dolls. he's such a great articulate guy so we just chased him for about 6 months and he was gracious enough to sit down with us.
G21: Who was the person that was the hardest for you to get for this film?
GW: Morrissey. He doesn't do interviews. I think he's smart that way. He's able to maintain and allure. But he can afford to. He's got that type of career. How to get a hold of him is a hard thing. The trick is telling him who it was about and what it was for. He's not willing to do it for himself. He loves the Dolls and loved Arthur.
G21: Was it hard to get the albums and stuff from the Dolls?
GW: No. there's people that were helpful to us. They were all friends of Arthur's. They make their business collecting this stuff. So we would find something and it was invariably belong to one of those people. They were really great with us.
G21: Did you interview many rock critics to talk about the Dolls?
GW: No. We had that but we just thought it would be too much like a Rock-U-mentary. There's much more. Maybe we'll put it on the DVD. I don't like talking head movies. I thought we had to move it along. We have these other people telling the story. I personally could listen to David Johansen and Sylvain Sylvain tell stories all day long. I love them. But for the purposes of this movie, I think we had just the right balance of them in it.
G21: Does this offer a bridge from one culture to another?
GW: In making this film, I'm attempting to wear two hats. I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of an audience remember who's not familiar with the faith and tell a story about a guy who became Mormon so that they not understand it as propaganda. I'm not trying to persuade people to become Mormon. But there are funny things about him being Mormon. I guess there's a little trick but its fun. I think it's a really great tale. It's a really touching story to tell people. Over time we've learned how to tell it I think.
G21: Have you shown it to your Mormon friends?
GW: I have not had a specific screening for them.
G21: Have you ever thought to have one for them?
GW: It never occurred to me.
G21: Do you think in a way it's has a Mormon view?
GW: Well that's not everybody's take when they watch the film. Some people watch the film and they'll say how tragic it was. They thought that he could have gone on and there is no God.
G21: Do you think they'll like the film?
GW: In my experience most of them do like the film. Most Mormons, when they're portrayed in a film think that's not how they are. But that's not the experience with this film.
G21: Were you a New York Dolls fan?
GW: No. I'm a fan of the bands that came from The New York Dolls. Particularly The Clash and The Ramones. I love music and so research for this film was fun. It made it easy because we were picking a very narrow aspect of the New York Dolls particularly their base player, Arthur "Killer" Kane. It was like going back and finding out stories of a really good friend you have. The great part is he has a lot of really great stories and a lot of really great people to tell those stories.
G21: What are some of the great stories?
GW: Well one time in Cleveland, Ohio there was a girl that was up there and she was naked in one of the rooms the Dolls were partying so they decided to take her and duct tape her to a chair and paste bologna all over her and they put her in the elevator and sent her down to the lobby.
G21: This your first feature-- What were your expectations?
GW: My expectations were that we would have something to take back home and show Arthur's friends at church who he really was. But Arthur believed that this film would be seen by millions of people. Arthur believed that his band would reunite and be a big hit. He was right at least about the band part. We'll see about the film.
G21: If you see all the movies coming out, you can learn about how to make a movie just from watching them all?
GW: I think it's a great time. When you think back to the days of French new wave. They were enamored with Hollywood films but they didn't have the budget. So they went out with super-16 cameras and they didn't have an expensive dolly so they would pick up a camera and run along. I think right now it's so cheap to make movies that its natural that there be some interesting documentaries out there to capture moments that I don't think have ever been capture on film because you can never afford to be that patient to pick up David Johansen to show up to reunite with the Dolls.
G21: Is there an album of that live show?
GW: I think you can buy it. Sanctuary Records released a DVD of the concert. I think with that you can buy the album. The Dolls themselves are coming out with a new album within the year.
G21: They didn't know he had Leukemia?
GW: No. None.
G21: Have you stayed in touch with the other Dolls?
GW: Yeah. I was very anxious to see their thoughts on the film, and they both really liked it.
G21: Did you have trouble clearing the music?
GW: This is my first time attempting to clear music so I thought it was just one big pain in the butt. But people that worked with me told me that I have no idea how lucky we got. We're just a small film we had no business getting music we got. We got Morrissey; we got the Clash. We got "London Calling." The Shangri-Las and a ton of the Dolls music.
G21: What was the hardest song to clear?
GW: The Clash. But "Please, Please Let Me Get What I Want," the Morrissey's song, wasn't easy. Its owned by two different people. We would send people screeners of the film and once they got the idea about the tone of the film and who it was about, there were some key people that did us favors. I'm still grateful.
G21: What are you going to do next?
GW: I have a couple projects I'm considering right now. One is a fiction based and the other is a documentary. We're eyeing them both.
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