Re: Wally Worts

About the only sports that I can get interested in are the big 3 football,basketball and baseball.When you talk the ponies, golf,tennis you are talking a different language far as I'm concerned.That being said I will also say I like what I've read so far(mostly)in WWoS.Hope the feature stays.

E.D.


ROD RESPONDS: Thanks for visiting the G21 and for writing, Mr. D.! I did pass your message on to Wally, but he seems to have this thing against e-mail. Can't figure it. Try catching him on the Message Board.

CHILD BEAUTY PAGEANTS: The Article That Would Not Die....

I recently came upon your article while scanning the net. I agree half-heartedly on your article. I have a 12 year old daughter that has been doing pageants since she was 7 years old. When SHE decided that she wanted to be involved in pageants, she came to me and told me which one she wanted to be in. It is still like that to this day. She tells me which ones she would like to check out. She wears very minimal make up, and she fixes her own hair the way SHE wants it. We attend pageants like the ones that you had mentioned, and she has done very well in them. Cori is an Honor Roll student, has been placed in Gifted and Talented classes, and as a 7th grader, is studying on a Junior in High School level. Her father and I are very proud of her academic achievements, as well as her community involvements. She is actively involved in the Muscular Dystrophy Association (locally), volunteers her time with the local animal shelter (as she would like to be a veterinarian), and volunteers her time at a local health center which helps the underpriviledged. What I am trying to get to, you should not stereotype the pageant industry. It is just like any other extra curricular activity that a parent gets his child involved in. (baseball, gymnastics, basketball, soccer, etc.) For I see those type of parents in all of the above mentioned sports---living their dreams through their child. We, as parents, want the best for our children, and would like to see our children do well in life. However, I realize, some parents tend to take it to the extreme. My daughter is a very self-sufficient individual, and her father and I respect any of her wishes and fully support her in any decisions that she will make in life......even if it is to quit her pageant life.

Not all pageants are to the extreme as you had described in your article. My suggestion to you, as a biased reporter, would be to study several pageants. Learn which ones are good for the child, and which ones exploit the children. There are several pageants that offer academic scholarships, and stress academic achievement - along with beauty and personality. These are the ones that we are involved in. My daughter has never modeled in a swimsuit, and until she is old enough to make her own decisions, will never model in that attire.

I have found in the past several years, that the ones that try to uproot the pageant industry, are usually individuals that could never enter a beauty pageant - maybe because they were never exposed to that, or maybe because he/she was never attractive enough in exterior and character beauty. Which category do you fit into?


CARLENE RESPONDS: To whoever the hell wrote that claptrap,

It has been my experience that girls that enter beauty pageants tend to be inbred hicks who look like they have been beat with the ugly stick. I doubt your daughter is any different. Truly attractive women/girls do not enter the (Little) Miss Clam Bake Pageant.

If you are so supportive of beauty pageants, why the hell did you feel the need to list all of your daughter's other accomplishments? Why not just say, "My daughter likes to look like a painted hussy," and leave it at that? You are trying to justify your daughter's involvement in the pageants because, deep down, you know it's wrong. Someday, when your daughter is 23, smoking crack and pregnant with her 5th child, you'll realize your mistake.

BTW, what seven-year-old "chooses" to be in pageants? Don't parents have control over their children anymore? Why would you allow your child to tell you what she is going to do? I know your kind, lady. You're the woman who lets her kid spend 20 minutes at Carvels deciding if she wants sprinkles or chocolate chips. I guess it should come as no surprise that you would let your prepubescent daughter prance around like a tart.

NIAL FROM SAN DIEGO: The Legend Continues....

I can't remember such a one sided contest since Mike Tyson chased old Mitch "Blood" Green around the ring hammering his face and torso when he was able to catch up to the slippery villain.That must have been oh at least 8 years ago.

I'm talking about Nial C.from San Diego vs. Tom H. from G21 in the recent Vox Populi. Next time I hope you stop it while Tom has some brain cell's left.

Oh the inhumanity [of publishers]!

FROM Nial C., San Diego, CA, USA:

Gee What Fun! You can pass to Mr. Hart the word. I am not mad at him. Do not take offense at his views. Glad he has the ways and means of voicing those views. This is like the park corner in London where everyone gets to get on a soap box and shout his views. So he is going to get a few brick bats thrown at him now and then. Yeah, I,ll read his stuff and answer when I see he has himself in a corner. Want me to tear it up again? After all that long record Vox P. will serve to entertain your readers, and who knows maybe be will get some remarks from around the country. What is more all those words cost you not a whit. Made good entertainment I think. I'll answer him if invited to, but I do not want him to have a fit in the office if this goes on..

Nial C. is dam glad we have all those people UNDER 50 to pay into Soc. Sec. and to guard the ramparts in case China (or someone else) decides they want our wheat fields. Hoo Ray for youth and to hell with old age, unless you consider the alternative. One more thing, (Mr. Hart) yes we do have a REPUBLIC and thank God for the Republican Party AND the Democratic Party that is what makes our country so full of discourse and political energy. That is what makes it a DEMOCRATIC system. And, NO I do not have a copy of Bartletts.

Adios,
Nial C. in Sunny San Diego, yes, and on my boat.

AND NOW: The Nial and Tom Show....

FROM Nial C, San Diego, CA, USA:

Excuse me, did I hear noise without the help of sound? How appalling that a friendly visit to your site should thunderously erupt into a web confrontation between a card carrying conservative (me), and an admitted, and ardent, practicing Libertarian (Thomas Hart).

Maybe this will start a fascinating prairie fire on the web, leading to a politically intemperate outbursts of personal opinion from all corners of the World (especially Redondo Beach). In the process of this combustion, we may all get a good laugh!

Tom, bless his indignant soul, invited me to "click off" (the girls used to tell me to get lost in high school) my goodness how language has matured. Tom (this transplanted student-now writer) can't take the heat. Has imprisonment in his dreary job slot led him to respond to his editorial assignment in a most intemperate manner? Shame, shame. We will be looking for a pronounced improvement in his attitude. Maybe it was the cold coffee! Hot coffee would have had a salutary improvement on his temper!


THOMAS HART BREAKS IN: You know, Nial, you're starting to remind me of one of the elderly people who stays on the phone with the telemarketer selling siding because it's someone else to talk to.

Guess what? Thanks to this miracle which is the Internet, you could go to a chat room and talk to someone who you think is of your own august calibre. Me, I'm starting to sympathize with those girls you went to high school with, old son.

And hey! Note the difference this time? I got my publisher to agree to let me respond to your long long long ramble point-by-point --- though I wonder why I even bother, you seem to be carrying on a conversation with yourself, anyway....

We must admit, it majestically arises, as the aristocratic voice of America in print. But it speaks not for me because I think it springs forth from the cesspool of the print world. I prefer the tomes of Benjamin Franklin, (1706-1790) and his penetrating and lucid prose. There was a man who was a truly enlightened cosmopolitan and a true Liberation.

Think, for two centuries, we have endowed with his name, schools, streets, counties, banks and our children. Who after all every reads the New York Times for a political education, except of course, those who cannot think for themselves, and need guidance in our political process. And who names anything after the New York Times. They have an agenda, book reviews for publisher pals, articles of attack on those they do not like or agree with, and it is good for world events. Politics, bah They hue to one line: World Government and support the United Nations, and buy ads. the Wall Street Journal is more to the point on factual events effecting our lives, and our future. At least it is unbiased politically and attacks all sides equally. Objectively, I should say. So foo on the NYT.


THOMAS HART RESPONDS: Don't get me wrong, Nial, I *like* Ben Franklin. I still pore over "Poor Richard's Almanac" once in a while. But Ben lived in a distinctly different world, politically and technologically than we do, let's face it.

I'm not suggesting that anyone *only* read the NYT, or that they subscribe to their views. If I believed that, an alternative magazine like the G21 would be the last place I'd put my ideas. Hell, I don't even agree with all the opinions expressed in this magazine, but I celebrate the fact that G21 is committed to such a wide diversity of views! I just suggest that you use the NYT or any other reputable news source as a jumping off point to SEE THE WORLD WE LIVE IN TODAY, not some cherished fantasy which springs from your preconceived notions.

To paraphrase the drunk in that old joke, Nial: I'll be older and wiser, tomorrow; you'll still be convinced that your views are the only ones that matter.

NIAL C. CONTINUES: Tom H. wonders if Rod (our "liberal" editor) would give him the space to properly reply to my thoughts. That is certainly an imprudent remark. Space, and filling that space, is what this magazine is all about. Give the people something to read and renounce or praise. At least keep them reading. This is, after all VOX POPULI! The voice of the people. And, good on you mate. Fair dinkim, and keep it up.


THOMAS HART RESPONDS: Nial, you're missing my point again!

It's not just space we're talking about here, but hours of Rod's life he'll never get back, coding this page, dealing with forwarding your long long long ramble to me, and dealing with my responses. Believe it or not, space on this web-server is NOT FREE and you and I sure as hell aren't paying for this bandwidth, Rod is.

Secondly, to harken back to the great gray NYT, filling the space is NOT the objective here. Filling it with what's "fit to print" should be, I think. That's why I for one, don't agree with Rod's decision to let you abuse his liberality.

Fact is, Nial, what I believe is that when people continually write in to this or any other publication, they're more in for their own self-aggrandizement than the "entertainment" of its readers or the health of the publication, as you so disingenuously claim...

NIAL C. CONTINUES: Yes, I said the USA rules the World. They all want a "fist full of dollars". Read our trade balance figures. The dollar goes up and the Yen goes down. The World want to be like us, prosperous, and free citizens. Even though many in come countries are not free to say so. Yes, Tom, we rule the World; by example, Just as our founding fathers intended us to do. Naturally I did not mean to say by force or by threat, or even militarily. That position was gained by necessity. The necessity to stop communism! We do no employ our might in conquest, and plead with other nations to disarm. We leap to defend those who are overrun by despots. Hence out commitment to Kuwait. We have all those allies you mention simply because without us, they would despair, fall apart and quarrel among themselves. We are entangled with them, in spite of the warnings of President George Washington, as he so eloquently stated in his farewell speech, (incidentally not spoken but delivered by letter). I am not an isolationist, the world in now to small, and the Marshall Plan was a great boon to democracy and peace (In Our Time?).

Cato and didacticism: Kids and students who might read this would not know the word. Your reference to "read the NYTimes" strikes right at the heart of it. You encourage me that it is morally instructive. Please show me an article, page, instance where the NYTimes adheres to that principle. Cato merely spoke out for the purpose of a moral teaching. Incidentally you know there were two Cato's, the Elder and the Younger, (95-46 B.C.) who spoke out against Caesar, actually the great grandson of the Elder. He was a stoic philosopher nothing more. Please don't sneer at him, nor the practice of being morally persuasive.

I fail to understand your reasoning in you remarks that "we are the least taxed and the worst educated" Do you fit that category? I do not think so. The two are mutually exclusive. You would seem to point out that to be the least taxed, we must remain the least educated. What? Do you mean that?


THOMAS HART RESPONDS: I'll let the first two paragraphs of this segment of your ramble speak for themselves. Not really sure what your point was.... But in answer to this last question, pard', here's the corollary: We don't want to pay our fair share of taxes for the very constitutional mandate that we demand: "the common good." (As a Libertarian, I would like the option of deciding *where* my taxes go, much like a line-item veto --- but I'm sure you knew that.) Education is a cornerstone of that common good, my friend. How do we finance education? With taxes, Nial. If we cut the amount of money in the general coffers, we cut the total dollars in that percentage committed to education. Get it? Maybe you should read the New York Times, after all.

NIAL C. CONTINUES: Texas has now instituted a plan to have every student have a computer. Are they progressive in education? I rather think so. I agree we do not adhere to the rigid tenants of the Japanese who place education of the children, and on into University as the forefront of life. We Tom, have a different style. Our style is to make it available if you want it. Past the 8th grade it is no longer mandatory and we place no social stigma on those who choose, or of necessity, do not go on. Perhaps the leveling down in instruction to those who must catch up by integration, accounts for the low scores. So what it will automatically correct itself in time. Good on us for it.

I know it is wonderful to have a Ph.D.. behind your name, but let us not attach it to snobbery either. After all you can be President in the USA and have a 4th Grade education. It has been done, check on Andy Jackson and my favorite modern President Harry Truman. Old George was the very best for me. Young Clint is way down the line for my money. But, he is my President, nevertheless, and may the patent office protect his zipper!

THOMAS HART: This is what I mean, Nial! Get real! You and I both honestly know that nobody with a 4th Grade education has a snowballs chance in hell of becoming President of the U.S. Today!! That is unless he is ALSO A MILLIONAIRE. Someone said that "Money is the mother's milk of politics..."(Oops! Where's that Bartlett's) and nothing could be more true today. Look at the California governor's race: two millionaires and two people with mega-buck soft money behind them.

Nobody in their right mind would say that the kind of democracy where anyone with less than a million, or millionaires in their hip pocket, is gonnah be President anymore, Nial. And you know that's true!

NIAL C. CONTINUES: Now before your coffee gets cold again. This "plutocratic" nation of ours you insist we are, have become, or succumbed too. We all desire great wealth, it is in our blood. You mean to say that the Wealthy rule us do you not? Perhaps you mean the wealthy have a greater influence in our political life than us little people. Well it must mean behind closed doors. Gates with 44B is being hauled before the courts. Surely he has no influence to prevent that. He defies Reno. (dam fool he is). Maybe you mean Old Wealth. The robber barons. Just who do you mean? Why do you say that? I willing to be convinced. Give me some specifics. An example! Insurance companies? Wall Street whom you probably detest.

THOMAS HART RESPONDS: See my response above first, Nial. Then ask yourself one question: What was the cost(to winner and loser) of every Presidential election(you can subtract the federal "matching funds") of the last 30 years? Who did that money come from Nial? Was it donations of less than $100, as former candidate Jerry Brown espouses, or was it so-called "soft money" and huge corporate multi-donations in the millions. Mother Jones magazine, Nial, another "liberal" publication I'm sure you're probably unfamiliar with --- published the names and sizable donations of *a very small group of rich and powerful people* high among them AMD --- a little over a year ago. Check it out in your public library for free. Then get back to me on this, Nial ---- Oh wait! What did I say? (Sorry, Rod!)

NIAL C. CONTINUES: The Senior Kennedy who did rule wall street went on to establish the first Securities and Exchange Commission under Roosevelt. he knew the evils, and he corrected them after the great prat fall of 1929, of which I witnessed, and you know little about. Margin then was 10% and every "little" person in the USA was into it up to his borrowing ability. 7 Days That Shook The World. You know nothing of those days.

You speak with no authority. I do. I lived it! I was 9 years old and had $7.00 hard earned dollars in the 5 Points Bank, (earned on the street after school selling papers for .05 cents each. The Arizona Republic). It closed and my dad could not explain to me where my $7.00 went. I know know of course. It was swept up in the remainder assets due the lending banks in Chicago, who was then that Banks big brother.

Today we have account insurance. Then we had none. The elder Kennedy and Roosevelt provided that protection for little people. Now we have protection for the little people who want to save. Those who are in the market (Wall Street) have instant access to their account via the very tool you use every day. As little as 20 minutes behind trading. This Tom is where CAPITAL is generated to create and expand business. That there are crooks there is not news either. Those accounts are protected to by a self- generated industry wide plan to cover those trading houses that fail. Speculation goes on it is called a calculated risk for a higher gain than you can get at the 3% or less you get at the bank. People use surplus money for this, unless of course you are the become the victim of "boiler room" stock salesmen, who are very hard to control. Government is constantly after those scoundrels too. the "blue sky laws" were implemented to protect old ladies, grandmothers, the ignorant and fools. Kennedy did that too. So please do not whine to me about the "great depression". I washed dishes in Barstow California for $1.00 day and was darn glad to get it. 3 meals went with it too. 12 hours went with it too. Savvy! Did me good. Made me respect a dollar. Taught me to live low and save high.

Please take note Tom......this broadcast is unsponsored!

Good luck to you and it is great to be able to carry on like this in a FREE SOCIETY(even though it is not perfect) it is the best in the world. May God Bless the little children so then can grow up in an information society, what ever that turns out to be.

Nial C. in Sunny San Diego.


THOMAS HART RESPONDS: "You speak with no authority. I do. I lived it!"

Therein lies the crux of my disagreement with you, Nial C. You continue to insist that you --- and only you --- speak with authority SIMPLY BY DINT OF YOUR AGE. That's garbage. Jesus, who I'm sure you remember, only lived to be 33 years old. Marlowe was no less a literary genius for dying young. I could make you a list, pardner.

Get off your high horse, Nial.

Believe it or not, because of the state of our economy back then, I too washed dishes, waited tables, worked construction --- including digging ditches, and drove taxi cabs in order to pay for my education. Your generation has no franchise on menial or manual labor. In fact, in case you hadn't noticed, most of the people in my generation have jobs where the primary phrases are "May I take your order, please?" and "Would you like fries with that?" This is the world that you and your O So Wise generations preceding have left us.

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